🐁 🎀 𝓂𝒶𝓈𝓉𝑒𝓇 𝒸𝒽𝒾𝑒𝒻 🎀 🐁
Old World Underground
🐸 Citizen of the Internet 🐸
Someone in the thread the neo-Nazi freakout at the tiki bar was asking about whether or not it is good to identify as a "National Socialist."
I've gone through all of this many times before, but I couldn't find any of those instances (probably on the old forum RIP), so I thought it good to
My question is directed to everyone, not specifically the quote.
I consider myself a so called "Nazi". A National Socialist.
I'm English, so the Daily Stormer's 'American Nationalism' does not apply to me. I believe NS is the best political system, and I believe Hitler did nothing wrong, he developed a functional economic and political system, with cultural policies that ensured the healthy continuation and survival of European peoples.
So what distinguishes me from a "neo-Nazi"? I do not, and would not have Swastika tattoos, or Sonnenrad tattoos. There is nothing about my appearance to indicate my political beliefs. On the surface I am a normie wage cuck with a good job, a Trad Aryan waifu, children, German car.
Are 'Nazis' OK? Ostentatious neo-Nazis are obviously the cringey and embarrassing contingent.
Can anyone clarify this for me?
Lets not get sidetracked, We're talking about neo-Nazis and whether Nietzsche is responsible for today's leading and dominant ideals. You can argue obtuse parallels, but he isn't an originator of any of today's leading ideals, also known as GloboHomo.
All there is ever going to be is obtuse parallels. This whole concept of a genealogy of morals or Marx's ideologies is really just a load of nonsense. It's just mental masturbation to attempt to draw these lineages of thought patterns through history and try to make connections with the development of societies and so on. Everything that people actually do in real life they do for practical reasons stemming from biological drives. That was the case until the absurdities of ideology theory were foisted upon us by Marx, and people now are crippling their own ability to act rationally in order to chase the spooks of utopianism.obtuse parallels
We got rid of Christianity, now we have white guilt. Nietzsche's theory that ideas were shaping morals has been proved wrong, in total. The "slave morals" of guilt and penitence are biologically hardwired into white people. As soon as we were "liberated" from Christianity, we formed a new and terribly destructive bizarro world Anti-Christianity based on seeking forgiveness from brown people and Jews. In this religion, we do not have Christ to cleanse us of our sin, so we must continue begging forgiveness until we die.
The only actual relevance of ideology is the way believing in the validity of ideology affects people's behavior. That appears to have been the point of it, when Marx sold people on the fundamentally absurd idea that modern social structures were the result of complex historical patterns of thought, and that corrections to the patterns of thought would lead to a perfect society.
Every ideology is Marxist, whether it is conservatism, liberalism, communism, globalism, anarchism or libertarianism, because they all follow the idea put forward by Marx that societies are structured around ideas and that the perfect pattern of ideas can lead to a perfect society. Thus, they say, instead of responding to things practically, you must use the correct pattern of ideas, and run any decision you have before you through that structure. If you do that enough times, the theory goes, you will create a utopia.
(Note that our rulers do not actually follow an ideology themselves. They are currently using libertarianism to explain why Trump shouldn't be allowed to send feds to Portland. They used fiscal conservatism to explain why Trump can't build a wall. What they actually care about exclusively is power, and they understand that ideology does not lead to power but that there is power in manipulating people by foisting a belief in ideologies on them.)
At this point in my life I cringe hard when someone says "I'm a National Socialist." It's not because I think it means tattoos and drunken brawls at the Tiki Bar, it's because I understand exactly what it is: it means you're attempting to form a utopian ideology out of political and social events that took place in 1930s Germany. Hitler would have cringed just as hard as I'm cringing at the thought of transforming the actions that he took for practical reasons in the 1930s into a Marxist type ideology 100 years later. Hitler did not create an ideology. There is no ideology of National Socialism. There was a political system of National Socialism in 1930s Germany that was made to fit the culture of 1930s Germany. This was implemented using practical action. Hitler did not act on ideology. If you go through and look at what he did, the core pattern you will find in all of it is that he acted on practicality. This, of course, is what all political leaders in history have always done before we got hit with the scourge of ideology and every political group started adopting these structures of thought which exist outside of reality to serve as a framework for decisions.
The practical reality of Nazism was that it was a reaction to communism, and any reactionary movement is going to have a degree of parallels with the thing it is reacting against. So I can see how someone could look at Hitler's Germany and try to twist it into an ideology. But every action he took was simply about doing what he thought was best for Germany, and he did it directly, without needing to run it through a systematized super-structure of ideas first. If you try to break it down into an ideology, you're going to end up with a lot of nonsense. For example: you will be imagining that military regalia is for whatever reason important in its own right, which is obviously wrong, but which is something that all neo-Nazis believe. Because there isn't an actual "National Socialist ideology," because Hitler did not design an ideology, if you try to make an ideology out of it, you end up creating a kind of cargo cult.
Mein Kampf is almost entirely about contemporary German politics. Hitler laboriously went through and outlined practical solutions that he saw to all of these different problems that the country was facing after the first war. In fact, he denounces politicians for seeking out ideology as he trudges through complicated practical solutions.
From a bit on foreign policy:
He just goes on and on and on like that, but that passage is apt, as it shows him pointing out the way people chasing ideologies are failing to manage practical considerations.It is just this circle which is beginning to-day to divert our foreign policy into most disastrous directions and turn it away from the task of promoting the real interests of the nation. Seeing that they do this in order to serve their own fantastic ideologies, I feel myself obliged to take the greatest pains in laying before my own colleagues a clear exposition of the most important problem in our foreign policy, namely, our position in relation to Russia. I shall deal with it, as thoroughly as may be necessary to make it generally understood and as far as the limits of this book permit. [...]
You say you don't want to be a nationalist because you're not American. Well, British people have a nation too. Britain is a nation. Everyone who is associated with the right-wing should be a nationalist, first and foremost. Nationalism is not a Marxist vision of utopia. When a person says "I'm a nationalist," he is not presenting himself as a follower of an ideology, he is saying that he believes in doing what is best for his nation. Hitler was a nationalist. "National Socialism" was simply a branding for German nationalism under Adolf Hitler.
If someone was actually primarily concerned with following Adolf Hitler (which I do not think should be anyone's primary concern, but assuming that it is), what he would do is not attempt to apply Marxist ideology theory to Nazism and make himself into a "National Socialist." What he would instead do is do what Hitler himself actually did, which was look at his nation and figure out how to get power and use that power to put the nation on the correct course. The correct course is always fundamentally based on the ability of the state to make it possible for people to have happiness, peace and freedom, so they are able to maintain healthy families and raise productive and healthy children.
We know what is going on, we know what we need to do to fix it. I don't think anyone here is legitimately confused about this, so anyone who is attempting to identify themselves uniquely as an individual by saying, "I have a special position on this that is different from others" is doing it for personal ego-oriented reasons. This entire thing of people feeling as though they need to identify themselves as being a unique individual because of the specialness of their ideology is a mind cancer, and it doesn't belong in an existential struggle for survival.
None of our problems are ideological. All of our problems are practical. We have real people, in real life, trying to exterminate us. The time for using politics as a hobby is over. This is all really happening and it is happening now, and we need to deal with it. We do not need to discuss ideas. All of our ideas are sound. That discussion is already over.
We should all be working to get power so that we can implement an agenda that is good for our nation - whether that nation is America, Britain or any other nation. We not only do not have the time to play these mind-games with ideologies, it is actually actively hurting us, creating a platform for right-wingers to argue with each other and to foment confusion. If we understand what ideology is, we should all be able to avoid it, and get out of this weird trap that has been laid for us.
I don't need to call anyone out here. I'm sure no one is actively saying to himself that he is identifying as a National Socialist because he wants to feel unique. Further, there isn't anything fundamentally wrong with a drive to want to be unique. But, if you are going around talking about how you're a National Socialist, you need to analyze your own self, and figure out what exactly you think you have to gain by adopting something you perceive as an ideology instead of simply working towards the obvious goals of solving all of these obvious problems, most of which have pretty obvious solutions.
For some people, I think the problems seem too big to solve, so it is easier to mess around with this ideology stuff instead of confronting things head-on and saying, "okay, we know what the problems are, we know how to solve them, now it is time to start the work of actually doing it." If there is some perceived ideological thing that needs corrected first, that allows people to procrastinate. What I saw with the tailspin of the old Alt-Right was that people felt good during the period where they were discovering things, which for a lot of people was between 2015-17, and once those things were all discovered, they didn't feel they were up to the task of actually doing anything, so instead they went into a quest for the perfect ideology, which allowed them to return into a mindset of thinking rather than doing. As @sp_ has documented, this led to some extremely bizarre results: virtually everyone who was involved in the old Alt-Right, save yours truly, is currently promoting third worldism, communism, Islam, costumed neo-Nazism, destroying America, and a whole load of other lunatic ideological nonsense. At this point, they're just going around looking for things to add to their ideology as kook would add bumper stickers to his VW bug.
I gather that the person I'm responding to is a teenager, but this is of course a general post to everyone who is experiencing this mental problem. Maybe you have other reasons for believing in ideology theory. I don't know. What I do know is that whatever your reason for doing it, it is wrong, and you are wasting your own time and the time of other people in a time when we do not have time to waste.
Most people probably aren't really going to understand any of this right off the bat, so they should probably spend some time thinking about it.