Vegan Natty Bodybuilding Vlog

NoNogNoGoZone

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I don't want to sound like a queer or nothing but please refrain from antagonizing Boot on Face in this thread

I hate vegans and have previously written that vegans should be arrested along with anyone telling kids faggotry is OK because those are both instances of grooming.

That said, this is "his" thread and it's about what he's doing, no matter how much I or anyone else may doubt he'll get results

Flashman's posts critiquing his technique are relevant and interesting

If you want other threads to shit on him, there are at least three you can find very easily just for that
 

Boot0nFace

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First of all, I don't think it's wise what you are attempting. Frank Tufano has, if not debunked, cast serious doubt on the mainstream ideas surrounding veganism. You state that there are reductions in cardiovascular related diseases and osteoporosis from stopping eating meat, but I would say, even if that is true, is it really worth it to eke out two extra late-stage years of life while living your life in hormonal imbalance from restricting your diet so severely from things like beef liver that have spectacular nutritional density.
What hormonal imbalance? If anything, it is eating mammals that causes an imbalance, actually ingesting their chemically identical hormones.

I mean you just aren't getting enough fats and proteins in your diet, bro.
.
How much do you need exactly and how was that determined?

Okinawan were getting by with 1% of their calories from fat, 40 grams of protein. This population sample was famed for being the healthiest demographic on earth.


My understanding is that to build muscle mass you need 100grams of protein if you weigh less than 200lbs. However, this was calculated with meat in mind, and when you eat meat half of the protein is wasted to gluconeogenesis. So a vegetarian probably only needs about 50grams.

What about all that science that says how amazing omega-3 fatty acids are for your health? Or the mountain of research papers showing links between protein intake and muscle growth?.
Your body produces its own omega-3 and is even shown to ramp up production when you clearly need more (i.e. pregnancy). So how much exogenous n3/6 do you need exactly? How was that determined?


So are you keeping track of how much protein roughly you're bringing in each day? Because that's like the number 1 thing you need to be tracking for muscle recovery and growth. It just looks to me that you aren't getting anywhere near the necessary protein to get big although you very well should be getting very lean since that's not that many calories. Nice idea with the 6-10 second pause at the maximum intensity point, but I would actually recommend having those isometric pauses all along the range of motion of the exercise just to shock the muscle. Nutritional yeast seems to have a ton of protein and is vegan. There is pea protein. I would advise you to make at least one protein shake a day with pea protein and fortified nutritional yeast and some fruit or whatever. Literally, you should be having like 3 of these shakes, getting 30g of protein each shake, unless you are going to severely up your amount of protein from whole food sources. You should be having like 150-200 grams of protein per day, spread out to not overwhelm your kidneys.
Yes I ordered some nutritional yeast in the mail, though I'll probably just take some twice a week and see how it goes.

Anyways that's all I can think of for now, I still recommend you become an omnivore, I was vegetarian for a while and my life is much better now that I am an omnivore and I gladly will trade those last eight extra months of life expectancy for being an omnivore. But whatever you do you, hopefully some of this helps.
Well its more than life expectancy. There is only one way to experimentally induce cardiovascular disease and its to elevate the cholesterol. You can only elevate the cholesterol in herbivores and only by feeding them animal fat. Humans share this in common with all herbivores. Real carnivores and omnivores don't get this disease naturally. Cardiovascular disease appears to be the cause of pretty much all ailments. Like if you want cancer, this is much easier to experimentally induce in subjects with high cholesterol. If you want progressive brain damage as you age, high cholesterol has that instore for you too. Tobacco smoking doesn't associate with any disease and cannot cause any disease in experimental settings without the comorbid presence of high cholesterol.
 
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Flashman

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Mind elaborating? You seem to know your stuff.
Sure. I'll try to be brief, or this could turn into an effort post in the middle somebody else's thing (sorry, BootOnFace). Basically, I am a big proponent of one set to failure training. I move in a very controlled manner, but not super-slow. I take 5 seconds to raise the weight and 5 seconds to lower it on nearly everything. There's nothing magical about that cadence, it just takes momentum out, and it's easy to follow. I reach failure at around 7 reps. If I get #7, then I raise the weight next time. What I do is a synthesis of what I've gleaned from Arthur Jones, Mike Mentzer, Drew Baye, and Doug McGuff. I like full body workouts 2-3 times per week that are about 6-8 sets each and take about 18 minutes to finish. This is based on having trained many different ways over the course of more than 35 years. I don't think barbells vs. machines vs. bodyweight matters at all. I use all, plus dumbbells and isometrics. Use what feels right to you and allows you to push yourself; what is available is the most important factor. Barbells are versatile, and they weigh the same in every gym (watch out for weird bars). Machines can have variable resistance, and can take a lot of skill learning out of the equation, plus, you don't need a spotter. Bodyweight is with you wherever you go. All have advantages, all have disadvantages.

I like the Starting Strength 3x5 idea for younger people because my experience is that teaching a teen or 20 something to do one super-controlled set to failure without cheating is VERY difficult. 3x5 is a good trade-off of extra volume for a better/safer effort from them. The 3rd set should be until you can't get anymore reps. If you get more than 5, up the weight by the least amount you can for next time. Starting Strength also seems to do a pretty job on form. It might be good to only do one set of deadlift, since that exercise really takes it out of you. The reason I say to modify it is that I think the power clean is not an efficient exercise for anyone other than a competitive Olympic lifter. It's heavily skill specific, and that skill doesn't transfer to anything else. Better to delete it, and just make sure to have a horizontal press (bench), a vertical press (overhead), a horizontal pull (row of some kind), a vertical pull (chinup), and a leg pressing movement (squat). That's the whole body. Add a trunk curl and a trunk extension, grip/forearms, neck, and lower legs, and that's really everything. Everything can be hit with a barbell and a power rack, and it can be done safely. I think 3x5 can very easily be trimmed to 2x5 and then 1x5-7 to failure. That's basically what I did over time. Substitute dips for bench, dumbbell laterals for overhead, pullups for chinups, pick another row or just skip it, dead lift for squat, and you have the basis for a perfect "B" workout. Don't neglect neck, grip, abs, and lower legs.
 
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Boot0nFace

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Vegan Natty Bodybuilding Vlog: Day 15 - Triceps

Today's Workout:
30 minutes lying dumbell extension
15 minutes treadmill (100 calories)
20 minutes seated single-arm overhead extensions
10 minutes double-arm overhead extensions

Gym is closed for 2 weeks, but as a result got me to focus on neglected muscles like triceps. Each rep had a 6-10 second pause at maximum intensity point as well as occasional pausing within the range and done until failure.

Breakfast:
brown rice, garden vegetables, fried tofu spring rolls

Lunch:
Byron Bay Macademia Muesli w/ almond milk & 2 bananas

Dinner:
Pasta arrabiata and green salad (mabye not perfectly vegan, couldn't really tell as the pasta was very spicy and the salad's green apples & dressing were quite sour)
 

Xanthism

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Well how did he do that?
Perhaps one of his most convincing arguments is that many of these allegedly vegan products aren't really that vegan.


Have some eggs and butter once in a while even if you avoid meat, bro.

There's nothing morally wrong with consumption of certain animal products as long as they're not treated horribly bad.

"Vivisection verboten" is perfectly compatible with Greek yogurt.

I missed artisanal French cheese. Strict veganism may become somehow gastronomically boring in the end, but I also understand greenpilled /x/ nibbas who are just trying to avoid negative animal karma. Reincarnation can be a bitch.
 

Boot0nFace

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Perhaps one of his most convincing arguments is that many of these allegedly vegan products aren't really that vegan.


Have some eggs and butter once in a while even if you avoid meat, bro.

There's nothing morally wrong with consumption of certain animal products as long as they're not treated horribly bad.

"Vivisection verboten" is perfectly compatible with Greek yogurt.

I missed artisanal French cheese. Strict veganism may become somehow gastronomically boring in the end, but I also understand greenpilled /x/ nibbas who are just trying to avoid negative animal karma. Reincarnation can be a bitch.
B12 is found in edible wild plants. Its only missing from commercialized produce due to mass-production depleting the soil. You should supplement it if you aren't growing your own vegetables, and possibly iodine.

Avoiding animal products has nothing to do with the treatment of said animals, that's a gatekeeper thing like climate change. We don't eat animal products because humans are primates, herbivore spectrum. You can try this experiment yourself. Buy every mammalian herbivore from the pet store, rabbits, mice...feed them meat and watch them develop all of the same exact diseases that killed your grandmother (atherosclerosis, osteoporosis, cancer, diabetes), and it will hit them in a matter of months, just to accentuate how toxic this stuff really is.
 
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Wim Hof

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B12 is found in edible wild plants. Its only missing from commercialized produce due to mass-production depleting the soil. You should supplement it if you aren't growing your own vegetables, and possibly iodine.

Avoiding animal products has nothing to do with the treatment of said animals, that's a gatekeeper thing like climate change. We don't eat animal products because humans are primates, herbivore spectrum. You can try this experiment yourself. Buy every mammalian herbivore from the pet store, rabbits, mice...feed them meat and watch them develop all of the same exact diseases that killed your grandmother (atherosclerosis, osteoporosis, cancer, diabetes), and it will hit them in a matter of months, just to accentuate how toxic this stuff really is.
I dunno, you said a bunch of stuff about how meat and animal products are killing me and I don't care because subjectively I feel more alive with my animal products. My basic theory is that it is easier for my body to assimilate things similar to my own organs and muscles, such as the fat-marbled muscle of an animal, than it is to assimilate celery fibers or whatever. But you do you, I actually am having fun trying to help you out to see if you succeed.

Hey bro so good luck, and be sure to switch up the speed at which you do the repetitions to keep things interesting and exercise the muscles slightly differently. Another thing I like to do while weightlifting is to have literally no plan on what I'm going to do for my workout other than the particular muscles I want to hit and then just make sure to hit them all hard. If you don't know what you're going to be doing, the muscles can't know, and you can shock them better. Plus its more fun.

As to not eating fat, I dunno man just listen to Arnold. Or this: https://www.heart.org/en/healthy-living/healthy-eating/eat-smart/fats/dietary-fats

Another thing you might find helpful is wheat gluten. Tons of protein there bro but it is not gluten free, hahah. You should be getting 200 grams of protein a day if you want to body build, spread out so that it is constantly flooding into the muscles and not overwhelming your digestive system in one or two giant meals. Just read the Encyclopedia of BodyBuilding, great book, cool pictures, very inspiring. Look into the Wim Hof breathing and ice baths because these things will enhance your cardio-system in lots of cool ways. You might really like Wim Hof since he is vegan too.
 

Wim Hof

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Vegan Natty Bodybuilding Vlog: Day 15 - Triceps

Today's Workout:
30 minutes lying dumbell extension
15 minutes treadmill (100 calories)
20 minutes seated single-arm overhead extensions
10 minutes double-arm overhead extensions

Gym is closed for 2 weeks, but as a result got me to focus on neglected muscles like triceps. Each rep had a 6-10 second pause at maximum intensity point as well as occasional pausing within the range and done until failure.

Breakfast:
brown rice, garden vegetables, fried tofu spring rolls

Lunch:
Byron Bay Macademia Muesli w/ almond milk & 2 bananas

Dinner:
Pasta arrabiata and green salad (mabye not perfectly vegan, couldn't really tell as the pasta was very spicy and the salad's green apples & dressing were quite sour)
Dude we aren't interested in the meals only, show us the gains, before after pictures, that's what its all about. If you aren't getting gains I don't want to see the meals. Work out your core more, you can hit the core every day with situps, check out Athlean X on Youtube he has some great 6, 7, 8 minute routines that hit the abs pretty well.
 

Boot0nFace

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I dunno, you said a bunch of stuff about how meat and animal products are killing me and I don't care because subjectively I feel more alive with my animal products. My basic theory is that it is easier for my body to assimilate things similar to my own organs and muscles, such as the fat-marbled muscle of an animal, than it is to assimilate celery fibers or whatever. But you do you, I actually am having fun trying to help you out to see if you succeed.
Apparently not because at least half of ingested protein from animal source is wasted in gluconeogenesis. Your body literally doesn't know what to do with this stuff.

As to not eating fat, I dunno man just listen to Arnold. Or this: https://www.heart.org/en/healthy-living/healthy-eating/eat-smart/fats/dietary-fats
So how much fat do you need exactly? All natural produce contains some fat in it. These concerns are only for people subsisting entirely on junk food, If you consumed nothing but soda-pop and fat-free milk, then you should be concerned about fat deficiency.

Another thing you might find helpful is wheat gluten. Tons of protein there bro but it is not gluten free, hahah. You should be getting 200 grams of protein a day if you want to body build
Granted you need more protein as you get bigger, these quantities are skewed towards the inefficient utilization that occurs when you eat animal protein. If you need 200g of protein from meat, you probably only need 100g from vegetables instead.

Dude we aren't interested in the meals only, show us the gains, before after pictures, that's what its all about. If you aren't getting gains I don't want to see the meals. Work out your core more, you can hit the core every day with situps, check out Athlean X on Youtube he has some great 6, 7, 8 minute routines that hit the abs pretty well.
I'm keeping a log of everything that is consumed so it can be determined if that is sufficient protein for gains. I'll post gains monthly, I'm only 2 weeks in.
 

Wim Hof

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Apparently not because at least half of ingested protein from animal source is wasted in gluconeogenesis. Your body literally doesn't know what to do with this stuff.



So how much fat do you need exactly? All natural produce contains some fat in it. These concerns are only for people subsisting entirely on junk food, If you consumed nothing but soda-pop and fat-free milk, then you should be concerned about fat deficiency.



Granted you need more protein as you get bigger, these quantities are skewed towards the inefficient utilization that occurs when you eat animal protein. If you need 200g of protein from meat, you probably only need 100g from vegetables instead.



I'm keeping a log of everything that is consumed so it can be determined if that is sufficient protein for gains. I'll post gains monthly, I'm only 2 weeks in.
What are you noticing? Noticing any gains, any lifts getting easier? Don't forget to be doing some stretching, too, bro. Good luck, I'm off to sleep. Check out wheat gluten, looks like a cheap source of protein.
 

anti-barabas-ite

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Look into the Wim Hof breathing and ice baths because these things will enhance your cardio-system in lots of cool ways
I came across wim hof a few months ago and briefly read of his historic exploits. Quiet a man.
This past week I see he was on with a podcaster I enjoy and gave it a listen.
An old body builder I subscribed to ten years ago talked about cold showers for doing something to "brown fat" iirc, last month a listened to laird Hamilton talking about extreme heat (saunas) and extreme cold as a life extension ploy...putting the body into a life saving mode as it were creating or repairing bdnf and fixing neuronal damages.
Its incredibly fascinating science how these guys are life hacking the body with other than medicines.
Using our own systems to heal and build a better man.
God bless you on your quest to help heal the natty bootonface vegan.
I'm going to work up to a cold shower, but the way things are going in history....everybody might be doing cold showers when the power goes out!
 

nukeisreal

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First of all, I don't think it's wise what you are attempting. Frank Tufano has, if not debunked, cast serious doubt on the mainstream ideas surrounding veganism. You state that there are reductions in cardiovascular related diseases and osteoporosis from stopping eating meat, but I would say, even if that is true, is it really worth it to eke out two extra late-stage years of life while living your life in hormonal imbalance from restricting your diet so severely from things like beef liver that have spectacular nutritional density. I mean you just aren't getting enough fats and proteins in your diet, bro. What about all that science that says how amazing omega-3 fatty acids are for your health? Or the mountain of research papers showing links between protein intake and muscle growth?

All that being said, you do you, I'll try to give some pointers from my experience.

So are you keeping track of how much protein roughly you're bringing in each day? Because that's like the number 1 thing you need to be tracking for muscle recovery and growth. It just looks to me that you aren't getting anywhere near the necessary protein to get big although you very well should be getting very lean since that's not that many calories. Nice idea with the 6-10 second pause at the maximum intensity point, but I would actually recommend having those isometric pauses all along the range of motion of the exercise just to shock the muscle. Nutritional yeast seems to have a ton of protein and is vegan. There is pea protein. I would advise you to make at least one protein shake a day with pea protein and fortified nutritional yeast and some fruit or whatever. Literally, you should be having like 3 of these shakes, getting 30g of protein each shake, unless you are going to severely up your amount of protein from whole food sources. You should be having like 150-200 grams of protein per day, spread out to not overwhelm your kidneys.

Look into free weight exercises with dumbbells and stuff, since ultimately if you want to get big you need to do this stuff. Also consider Frank Tufano's workout regime.

Anyways that's all I can think of for now, I still recommend you become an omnivore, I was vegetarian for a while and my life is much better now that I am an omnivore and I gladly will trade those last eight extra months of life expectancy for being an omnivore. But whatever you do you, hopefully some of this helps.
Funny you mention Frank and then recommend nutritional yeast, he thinks it's useless. And yeah, internet search "Frank Tufano's carnivore diet exercise program", it's just sick mayne.
 

Wim Hof

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Funny you mention Frank and then recommend nutritional yeast, he thinks it's useless. And yeah, internet search "Frank Tufano's carnivore diet exercise program", it's just sick mayne.
Yeah I'm recommending he get nutritional yeast because this guy is vegan and needs more protein and B-vitamins if he's going to get bigger.
 

Flashman

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Serious question(s) for everyone participating. I've often heard the idea that we don't get the same vitamins and minerals from fruits and vegetables that people used to get because of soil depletion. The idea is that repeated farming of the same land on the corporate farming model has drained the soil so that now the produce doesn't contain the same nutritional content that it used to. Sounds logical. My question is this: do plants absorb minerals and vitamins from the soil that are not essential for them? If an essential vitamin or mineral is missing, the plant won't grow (literally "essential"). So, for this "soil depletion" theory to withstand scrutiny, plants would need to absorb minerals they don't require for survival. Does that happen? If so, how? The reason this question comes up is that many vegans hold that B-12 was available to earlier generations from plant sources, but that soil depletion has ended that. I've heard similar theories from non-vegans promoting all sorts of supplements. Do plants absorb minerals they don't require, or are we really talking about eating dirt? The soil in my garden is being "farmed" for the first time right now. Do my tomatoes and squash have nutritional qualities not found in store bought produce?
 

anti-barabas-ite

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Do my tomatoes and squash have nutritional qualities not found in store bought produce?
Yes. You are not adding oil industry supplies inputs NPK.
Bacteria's, fungi, archaea... create these in healthy soil roots systems.

Plants will grow and produce fruit or veggies...but because the soils diversity is wrecked by pharming practices you get less of nutrients you might have in bygone days.

Many civilization died out or moved on because soil wrecked...cant feed you breeders right.
 

Flashman

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Yes. You are not adding oil industry supplies inputs NPK.
Bacteria's, fungi, archaea... create these in healthy soil roots systems.

Plants will grow and produce fruit or veggies...but because the soils diversity is wrecked by pharming practices you get less of nutrients you might have in bygone days.

Many civilization died out or moved on because soil wrecked...cant feed you breeders right.
So you are saying that plants do absorb non-essential (for the plant) nutrients from the soil. Put simply, you are saying the plants did absorb or produce Vitamin B-12 from soil, even though the plants themselves do not require Vitamin B-12 to grow or survive. Okay, thanks for the answer.
 

anti-barabas-ite

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So you are saying that plants do absorb non-essential (for the plant) nutrients from the soil. Put simply, you are saying the plants did absorb or produce Vitamin B-12 from soil, even though the plants themselves do not require Vitamin B-12 to grow or survive. Okay, thanks for the answer.
I don't do vegan nutrition, but allegedly the amount of glysophosphates on soy(b12) for human consumption might be less than animal feed soy.
But you would need to visit the farm sites to know for sure... monsanto bayer won't tell you. There are roundup ready beans for human consumption, and non round up ready beans for human consumption.

The soil gets sick, the humans get sick its preddy simple.
 

Wim Hof

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Serious question(s) for everyone participating. I've often heard the idea that we don't get the same vitamins and minerals from fruits and vegetables that people used to get because of soil depletion. The idea is that repeated farming of the same land on the corporate farming model has drained the soil so that now the produce doesn't contain the same nutritional content that it used to. Sounds logical. My question is this: do plants absorb minerals and vitamins from the soil that are not essential for them? If an essential vitamin or mineral is missing, the plant won't grow (literally "essential"). So, for this "soil depletion" theory to withstand scrutiny, plants would need to absorb minerals they don't require for survival. Does that happen? If so, how? The reason this question comes up is that many vegans hold that B-12 was available to earlier generations from plant sources, but that soil depletion has ended that. I've heard similar theories from non-vegans promoting all sorts of supplements. Do plants absorb minerals they don't require, or are we really talking about eating dirt? The soil in my garden is being "farmed" for the first time right now. Do my tomatoes and squash have nutritional qualities not found in store bought produce?
Yeah, I mean you can get great plant growth using just nitrogen, phosphorus, and potassium. In that the plant will grow if it gets enough water. But the complexity of the flavor, which is really just our taste buds sensing the availability of nutrients and vitamins in their proper balance, will diminish. The amount of nutrients is clearly diminishing. Natural things taste good based in large part to the availability of macro and micro-nutrients, almost as if our taste buds were designed to help us sense things that are healthful.

Organic fruits and vegetables, if raised right, will have more nutrients and vitamins and minerals, more or less they will, although there's conflicting debate about this. Mainly, they find more antioxidants. The main thing is that there will be fewer pesticides, herbicides, GMO, etc. The vitamin and mineral and nutrient content even in conventional produce is actually good enough for the most part, in my opinion. OVerall, though, they are lacking the plant enzymes which make the vitamins/nutrients/minerals more available to people's cells.



But organic is also subject to gross abuses of loopholes by corporations seeking to make money above all else, and is NOT the optimum way of producing produce. Beyond organic, the best thing would be to eat produce that was raised very carefully in extremely rich soil, and to eat it raw and as soon as possible after it was picked because this is going to be when the plant enzymes as well as the vitamin/mineral/nutrient content will be richest and most bioavailable. The bigger factor contributing to nutrient/vitamin/mineral levels being lower in plants is that the produce generally sits on a shelf for a week, at which point much the micro-nutrients etc deplete and become unavailable to the consumer.


Yes, your virgin soil should be much better than the depleted farm soil. However, there may still be imbalances and you can send a soil sample to a lab for a bit of money to find out more or less how your soil is doing. Be sure to look into composting and try not to use chemicals on it, as these destroy the soil micro-organisms. Biodynamic gardening might also be of interest.

As to B12, I have no idea if that used to be in plants in greater amounts. Sounds like a retarded vegan conspiracy theory to me. B vitamins are found in animal products plentifully and the vegans are always seethe-coping to rationalize their ideology and because veganism is so unhealthy the vegans can't think correctly or rationally.

But yes, the soil is being depleted of nutrients but far more importantly is the destruction of the soil biome, which makes nutrients available to plants. This planet and all of its life forms appear to be literally like the movie Avatar, except the inter-species communication does not take conscious form at all, but operates on the unconscious level between many, many overlapping webs of mainly symbiotic relationships. When this symbiosis is disrupted, it manifests on the larger scale through physical and psychological disease but ultimately appears to be a disruption on the cellular level of cell health. So the decrease in vitamins/minerals/nutrients in produce has a second main cause: it stems from the destruction of the soil biome by chemicals, which contains billions of fungi, bacteria, and organisms such as earthworms working together in harmony to produce the most soil health.

 

Flashman

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The amount of nutrients is clearly diminishing.
Now that makes perfect sense to me. Depleted soil would make the nutrient content lower in the things depleted and things derived from them. My question is about nutrients that are essential and non-essential for the plant. I can see where a shortage (even a relative shortage) of an essential nutrient or a change in the microorganisms could cause a change in taste even though the plant can still grow. Do plants absorb or otherwise produce nutrients that are not essential for the plant? Plants don't need Vitamin B-12 to grow and reproduce. I don't know why they would produce or store it from an evolutionary standpoint. In other words, if early man got B-12 on a vegan diet, it was from eating dirt.

As to eating things like GMO foods from Monsanto, the biggest thing is that they want to grow food that they can spray with Roundup and pesticides without killing the food. It killing you is not really much of their concern. They have lobbyists and lawyers for that. They literally want to sell you food with Roundup on it.

In all fairness, the soil in my garden has been repeatedly enriched by my cat shitting in it. He sucks.
 
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