Terrible Reviews for Warhammer Xcom Clone

Masterofthedeathwing

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It's always been the way. My 3rd ed Necrons annihilated absolutely everything because they were new and they always make new units OP to drive sales then nerf them later whilst introducing new OP units. In 3rd ed you could march across the board with squads of basic warriors mowing down everything and the basic light vehicles of the necrons could 1 shot a Land Raider Crusader.
Yeah i remember that, but they also had the phase out rules to balance them out somewhat.
Now no such balancing exists. its "buy the latest model, or lose all your games" the Tau riptide is also so completely overpowered and broken, you see two of those in your enemies lineup, and you can happily just pack up and declare he won. because there is nothing you can do about them, and they will kill 20-30 models each per turn hits on a 2, wounds on a 2, re roll 1s, no coversaves or armour saves allowed. no line of sight required., and are cheaper than a landraider. its just bullshit how badly they broke the game
 

Nate Higgers

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Yeah i remember that, but they also had the phase out rules to balance them out somewhat.
Now no such balancing exists. its "buy the latest model, or lose all your games" the Tau riptide is also so completely overpowered and broken, you see two of those in your enemies lineup, and you can happily just pack up and declare he won. because there is nothing you can do about them, and they will kill 20-30 models each per turn hits on a 2, wounds on a 2, re roll 1s, no coversaves or armour saves allowed. no line of sight required., and are cheaper than a landraider. its just bullshit how badly they broke the game
Yeah it's definitely got worse with each ed that comes out.
 

Andrew Anglin

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It's always been the way. My 3rd ed Necrons annihilated absolutely everything because they were new and they always make new units OP to drive sales then nerf them later whilst introducing new OP units. In 3rd ed you could march across the board with squads of basic warriors mowing down everything and the basic light vehicles of the necrons could 1 shot a Land Raider Crusader.
I've never played any tabletop games, but I've heard about this rules manipulation selling scheme repeatedly.

It seems like people should just make their own rules, which is I think what Tony is talking about.

Also, 5g D&D set is just retarded on its face.
 

Tony Castle

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Its not so much that the rules are complicated, Its more that the elite troops that cost shitloads of points to field, are absolute dogshit now. and the spam tier conscripts kick the shit out of elite troops and cost next to nothing to field. so it makes no sense.

Under the old rules space marines get a 3+ save, and space marine weapons pierce armour, denying shit units a save.
Now everything reduces the save of a space marine, so his 3+ armour is now worthless and more like 5+ armour against just about everything.
then space marines weapons had their armour piercing value removed, so literally every single model in the entire game gets its full armour save against space marines.

But the points values didn't change. space marines still cost 3 x more than other units. and everything makes them worthless, and their own weapons make them even more worthless. so playing is pointless.
just use house rules. I guess in GW events you gotta follow the codex and rules, but if you just play with a few friends play how you want. I wouldn't be caught dead at an official tournament, they're a little too much for me. I collect small scale armies, around 1-1.5k points and keep them shelved up for games on the weekend.
 

Tony Castle

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These guys do some great simple recreations of other rulesets that are free. They are easier to read for new players as well. But they're kind of just basic backbones of the rules GW puts out so you can easily combine the systems however you want, add rules you like, ignore rules you don't.. just change the shit you don't like.
 

Tony Castle

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I've never played any tabletop games, but I've heard about this rules manipulation selling scheme repeatedly.

It seems like people should just make their own rules, which is I think what Tony is talking about.

Also, 5g D&D set is just retarded on its face.
Yeah the rules changes are supposedly to balance the game but we're talking about a 35+ year old game, it should be pretty well balanced at this point. Everyone knows they do it for two reasons.. 1, to sell a new army codex and core rulebook to the same customers who already own them every 2 years and 2, to get people with the money and time to waste to buy whatever the new overpowered army/unit is that year
 

Andrew Anglin

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Yeah the rules changes are supposedly to balance the game but we're talking about a 35+ year old game, it should be pretty well balanced at this point. Everyone knows they do it for two reasons.. 1, to sell a new army codex and core rulebook to the same customers who already own them every 2 years and 2, to get people with the money and time to waste to buy whatever the new overpowered army/unit is that year
Yeah and it's like if the rules are this old they're perfected basically so changes can only make things shittier.

5g DnD was also like, to make orcs smarter because WoC declared that orcs are black people for some reason.

BG3 has no orcs lol.

But honestly, especially given that BG3 uses a more traditional turn-based system, it would have been so much better if they'd used old rules. I also really don't like abolishing the alignment system. Alignment disagreements with NPCs were one of the funnest quirky things about the first two BG games.

Anyway, I'm not really any kind of expert on this stuff. I've never played any of these games tabletop. But I was definitely a hardcore fan of Infinity Engine DnD. I also love BG3, so I'm not hating, but I don't see any single one of these rule changes as an improvement.

I think you even said that the disengagement attack was a 5g rule thing. I thought it was just a thing from the Larian engine.
 

Tony Castle

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Yeah and it's like if the rules are this old they're perfected basically so changes can only make things shittier.

5g DnD was also like, to make orcs smarter because WoC declared that orcs are black people for some reason.

BG3 has no orcs lol.

But honestly, especially given that BG3 uses a more traditional turn-based system, it would have been so much better if they'd used old rules. I also really don't like abolishing the alignment system. Alignment disagreements with NPCs were one of the funnest quirky things about the first two BG games.

Anyway, I'm not really any kind of expert on this stuff. I've never played any of these games tabletop. But I was definitely a hardcore fan of Infinity Engine DnD. I also love BG3, so I'm not hating, but I don't see any single one of these rule changes as an improvement.

I think you even said that the disengagement attack was a 5g rule thing. I thought it was just a thing from the Larian engine.
I really do love how faithfully they've tried to integrate D&D rules into a video game, but it's just a shitty edition. The old infinity games like the original Baldur's Gate and Torment were all 2nd edition, except for Icewind Dale 2 that was 3rd edition.. which is probably the best edition for video games to use. But 2nd edition would still have been better and the nig- orcs could still be stupid as fuck. 2nd and 3rd both gave you enough freedom to make cool and unique character builds that felt like you were playing a totally unique class. In 5th a wizard is a wizard and a fighter is a fighter, the only thing those rules changed is now every character feels the same oh and also buy a new book faggot. I won't be doing that anymore with these game companies, if your rules were so bad last edition you gotta rewrite the whole fucking thing then I think you actually owe me a new book for free because the last one was broken.
 

Yang Wen-Li

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I think you even said that the disengagement attack was a 5g rule thing.
It's been a while but it's either a perk that everyone playing melee ends up taking because it's so good or all the melee classes just have it as a perk by default. 5E is pretty exploitable, the first time I played it I ended up making an OP build by just picking what I thought seemed good, I had some paladin spell that let me apply burn damage with my attacks, I could attack twice per turn, I had the biggest sword I could find and I had some perk I took that if I got a killing blow I would get an extra attack, so in any encounter with crowds ganged up around me I would just slaughter them all one by one in the same turn as long as I didn't miss my attacks. Around the time we stopped playing, my DM told me at the start he was calculating how much damage every player was doing, and he stopped after the like, 6th session when he saw I was doing over 95% of the damage every session. I feel kinda bad for it because I just spoiled the fun of everyone but it's not really my fault if you can break the game by just going "huh, this thing seems good combined with that". I generally don't metafag in games and just play what I like, but I think everyone I was playing with thought I was looking up character builds and shit and just pretending that I wasn't doing that.
 

Jspizy

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My favorite XCOM style game is Wasteland 3. I think it is made by some of the same people as Fallout 1 and 2. The story and setting gets a little silly but not in a bad way.
 

Masterofthedeathwing

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Yeah and it's like if the rules are this old they're perfected basically so changes can only make things shittier.

5g DnD was also like, to make orcs smarter because WoC declared that orcs are black people for some reason.

BG3 has no orcs lol.

But honestly, especially given that BG3 uses a more traditional turn-based system, it would have been so much better if they'd used old rules. I also really don't like abolishing the alignment system. Alignment disagreements with NPCs were one of the funnest quirky things about the first two BG games.

Anyway, I'm not really any kind of expert on this stuff. I've never played any of these games tabletop. But I was definitely a hardcore fan of Infinity Engine DnD. I also love BG3, so I'm not hating, but I don't see any single one of these rule changes as an improvement.

I think you even said that the disengagement attack was a 5g rule thing. I thought it was just a thing from the Larian engine.
So i completed Siege of Dragonspear it is essentially BG1.5 with icewind dale's combat system and AI. and it wasn't great.
the quests were pretty basic and all over the place. theres too many locations where you just go around talking to one guy, fetching something back from another boom absolutely loads of XP and game- breaking equipment handouts non stop. like when you are in the Flaming fist camp, and the crusader camp, even a seige, there is more going in and out of the fort doing various quests in the enemy camp. involving no combat, its weird.
there is alot of fighting, and the combat mechanics are definately a huge upgrade on the original. Like if you trigger guards, stuff like that, enemies actively form into parties and come hunt you down.

the tranny is hamfisted into the story, makes it obvious, talks like a tranny, calls you "kitten" ffs lol
you even have to speak to the tranny multiple times, in order to complete several quests, and it has long dialogues too. its just weird you'd have to see it.

The biggest complaint, strangely enough, is just how much stuff the game throws at you. like you just get non stop spammed with magical swords, armour, shields, you name it, that are miles better than anything you will come across in BG2 and stacks upon stacks of it.
it finds a way to take all of your money off you, the guy in charge of the flaming fist vault gambled it all on the dogs whilst your'e on the first mission. then gives you it all back in the form of having so much loot it becomes overwhelming. so you just spam sell it all to the camp merchant.

Everyone is a dick to you. because its come out your'e a bhaal spawn. even the merchant berates you every time you visit. theres some moralising about refugees in there. I wouldn't recommend anyone spend more than Β£-$ 2-3 on it and only if they really wanted to approach BG2 a couple of levels higher. otherwise its not worth it.

It was nice that im able to start BG2 at 500.000 xp instead of 250.000 and im glad i didnt pay for it.
i paid for 1 and 2, because they were cheap, SoD was full price, and i wasn't wiling to do that.
 

KalleKarlsson

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used to. 8th ed sucked enough for me to throw in the towel, under 6-7th ed i have a 20.000 point army a full company worth of space marines, rhinoes, command squad, veteran squad. 3 dreadnoughts. then half a company of terminators each squad has a landraider transport, 3 venerable dreadnoughts (haha dark angels) and 50 bikes and landspeeder squads. assorted tanks including space marine specific superheavy tanks from forgeworld and enough scenery to run a small tournament.


But yeah the new ruleset broke the game hard imo
Imagine what you could have had if GW hadn't decided to go with the tin figures and upped the cost significantly!
 
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