cozy.tv

Woman

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Big Tech is a scapegoat. The stumbling block is Nick’s complete lack of humility when approaching this subject.

I don’t know why people are having such difficulty grasping this not-at-all-hard-to-understand concept.

Let’s go through the sequence of events. Understanding the chronology is important.

1. Late April, Nick does his debate with Metokur where he goes to the mat for for his right to flag people. There is no ambiguity to what his position. He even defends false DMCA flagging which is illegal. He makes defense of flagging a specific person. The debate is watched by +10,000 people. We’ll call this POINT A.

2. For the next week, the debate is endlessly analyzed and dissected across the Internet. Many large content creators during this time did analysis’ of the debate. During this period, Nick continues to reiterate his pro-flagging position in feuds with Styx and Rekeita.

3. The controversy eventually dies down and gets ultimately drowned out by the even more catastrophic Jaden arc.

4. Several months pass.

5. Big Tech tells his audience to flag Mr. Girl.

6. Big Tech appears on Destiny and makes his pro flagging arguments. Nick comes in later to tard wrangle.

7. The next day, Nick goes on Telegram and “clarifies” his position that he was against flagging. It was only AFTER it appeared that his relationship with Destiny appeared threatened that he did this. We will call the POINT B.

Here is the point that Destiny was desperately trying to get Nick to acknowledge and that Nick was desperately pretending not to understand:
In between Point A and Point B, NO ONE (not Big Tech, not Destiny, not Mr. Girl, not any of the Groypers, not any of the Groypers’ enemies) had any reason to believe that Nick’s position on flagging was anything other than what he said it was during the Metokur debate.

That is what makes Nick’s “clarification” a retcon. He expects his new anti-flagging position to apply retroactively, for the time period in between Point A and Point B. That’s not “clarifying”. That’s retconning and that’s not how this sort of thing work.

That is also why Big Tech is a scapegoat. When Big Tech told his audience to flag Mr. Girl, he had no reason to believe that Nick’s position on flagging was anything other than what he said it was during the Metokur debate. You could say even if that were the case, Big Tech still should have been smart enough to know that a friend of Destiny would be an exception to the rule. But the fact is that when Big Tech went on Destiny’s stream, he gave what he believe was the official AF position on flagging. He was repeating Nick’s arguments from five months ago.

If you watch the last Nick-Destiny encounter, Destiny spends half the debate trying to get Nick to acknowledge this very easy to understand concept and Nick spends half the debate pretending to not understand it. He keeps coming back with “I said I’m against flagging. I said I would ban any Groypers caught flagging”. But WHEN did he say that?
Chronology is the key factor here. Only after Nick was facing the possibility of negative consequences for holding his previous position did he change it. That is why Destiny was so unmoved by any of Nick’s arguments. Nick was playing dumb and came off like he was gaslighting because he was. And it just dug his hole deeper.

I understand why Nick is refusing to acknowledge this but I don’t know why the people on this board are having such a hard time understanding it.
and we all witnessed the Metokur 'debate' Nick was a disaster. I went right off him. He comes across as completely dishonest and ballless.
 
Search "Twitter Space" in this thread by his username, and they should all be there.
Maybe I still need more posts before I can do a search. This is what I see when I click your search link. I also don't see any button/link to initiate my own search.


I also can't upload an image directly; there's only an option to link a url. I'll just use postimg.cc since that's what Potsticker is using.


Sorry if this meta post is off topic.
 

PraiseJesus

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I understand why Nick is refusing to acknowledge this but I don’t know why the people on this board are having such a hard time understanding it.
We literally don't care. I'm not sure what you aren't getting at. If you think anyone is going to give a damn about Nick being pro-flagging or something its just not going to happen.
 

Kozer

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We literally don't care.
I care, insofar as it's an untenable position to hold if you are going to grow an online movement. I just disagree that it's a position that Nick holds. Its literally being perpetuated by people that want us to fail, despite our repeated attempts to correct the record, that's why it's frustrating.
 

Tony Castle

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When Big Tech told his audience to flag Mr. Girl, he had no reason to believe that Nick’s position on flagging was anything other than what he said it was during the Metokur debate. You could say even if that were the case, Big Tech still should have been smart enough to know that a friend of Destiny would be an exception to the rule. But the fact is that when Big Tech went on Destiny’s stream, he gave what he believe was the official AF position on flagging. He was repeating Nick’s arguments from five months ago.
This is why I don't want to beat up on Big Tech in this situation. Or really make a huge moral fagging about reporting channels at all, everyone gets reported and every does reporting. I used to think it was a snitching in prison tier faux pas in 2016, as well as being morally wrong. But after being booted from everything and seeing literally everyone else support this stuff up until immediately after it happens to them, I just can't summon the fucks to give.
 

PotstickerSwatstika

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so why backtrack. Own it.
I care, insofar as it's an untenable position to hold if you are going to grow an online movement. I just disagree that it's a position that Nick holds. Its literally being perpetuated by people that want us to fail, despite our repeated attempts to correct the record, that's why it's frustrating.
If Nick had “owned it”, anti-AF people would be bitching about that instead. There’s no winning with these people, they’ll just slip like slime into a new antagonistic position that’s counter to whatever Nick says or does. This isn’t a good faith debate, this is a down and dirty war.
 

Woman

Member
If Nick had “owned it”, anti-AF people would be bitching about that instead. There’s no winning with these people, they’ll just slip like slime into a new antagonistic position whatever Nick does or says. This isn’t a good faith debate, this is down and dirty war.
he did own it on the metokur debate that's why his new stance is so silly.
 

PotstickerSwatstika

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he did own it on the metokur debate that's why his new stance is so silly.
So him owning it was the right thing to do during the Metokur debate? And that satiated the seethers? No. You’re proving my point.

Welcome, btw. 👋🏻 It’s always nice to see the anti-Nick lurkers come out of the woodwork when a new LeTrav post drops.
 

Kozer

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This is why I don't want to beat up on Big Tech in this situation. Or really make a huge moral fagging about reporting channels at all, everyone gets reported and every does reporting. I used to think it was a snitching in prison tier faux pas in 2016, as well as being morally wrong. But after being booted from everything and seeing literally everyone else support this stuff up until immediately after it happens to them, I just can't summon the fucks to give.
I agree with the sentiment, it is hard to care, but it also is important to recognize that in an online movement (assuming you want to grow) mass reporting is not viable. Most people recognize it as (at the least) faggy hall monitor bullshit. No one wants to be a faggy hall monitor. Plus, it won't work most of the time, and the juice isn't worth the squeeze. Even if these people get banned, they will never be as thoroughly banned as we are, so why even bother?

These are the cards we are dealt, is it unfair? Yes, but blowing up your growth because of some petty bullshit is a problem.

It may feel like a chore and feel unfair, but it IS something that must be reiterated. Supporting mass reporting people is fuckin gay. DMCA's people that are literally using life ruination tactics are fair play because there is legal recourse that can be done, but 'mass reporting' for X reason is completely untenable. And that's taking out how you feel about it morally (which I am also against but it is irrelevant in this situation)
 

DrangNSturm

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Punching people is wrong, but punching someone who just punched you is not wrong, obviously. It becomes slightly less clear whether or not it's wrong to punch someone who stole from you -- that is, if the actions aren't exactly the same and it's not clearly in self defense. In those cases, maybe it's not completely the most moral thing to do, but I think most people can understand it's basically "fair play". If you stick your hand in someone's pocket and they start beating the shit out of you, maybe that's wrong of them to do, but you're also a faggot for crying about it.

There's another element to this conversation in particular, which is that flagging is a uniquely wrong act. During the Metokur debate, I think it was made pretty obvious that this notion is basically YouTuber morality. It's a moral standard created by YouTubers because that moral code benefits them. For all the reasons we can agree deplatforming is bad, there is nothing intrinsically heinous and beyond the pale about fucking with someone's YouTube channel in response to them fucking with your life, but it's one of the worst things you can do in the mind of a YouTuber.

The debate was never "is deplatforming wrong?" That's like asking if punching someone in the face is wrong. Yeah, obviously it is. The debate was "is deplatforming always wrong -- and how wrong is it, compared to all these other wrong things being done that no one seems to care about?" It seems like no one actually believes flagging someone's shit is always wrong in every case no matter what, which Destiny flagging Keffals demonstrates perfectly. And if you want to get on your high horse and claim that yeah it is wrong in every case, there's really no answer as to why it's still uniquely heinous as a retaliatory action within a combat situation, unless you're working within the paradigm of YouTuber morality.

If you're retarded, this post will come off to you as "defending deplatforming" or justifying Big Tech's decision to flag Mr Girl.
 

Benevolent Landlord

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It may feel like a chore and feel unfair, but it IS something that must be reiterated. Supporting mass reporting people is fuckin gay. DMCA's people that are literally using life ruination tactics are fair play because there is legal recourse that can be done, but 'mass reporting' for X reason is completely untenable. And that's taking out how you feel about it morally (which I am also against but it is irrelevant in this situation)
I'm not going to agree that mass reporting a literal pedophile promoting pedophilia is gay, but I understand the meta reason why we should be against it. For now.
 

Coltraine

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he did own it on the metokur debate that's why his new stance is so silly.
It's only "new" however to people like yourself who've only been following Nick for about the past 5 minutes (I assume). And I can see why this would look bad from that perspective- and from the perspective of other recent newcomers to this AF environment. I can see how this could easily (yet still deceptively) be exploited by Nick's enemies.

Those of us who've watched Nick closely for years now understand implicitly that the Metokur moment was the real aberration or exception in this historical or biographical timeline. Nick's positions generally on censorship and issues of free speech have not differed really at all from those of DS and other major right-wing dissidents over the years.

This tactic of criticism is like Jews who always start somewhere in the middle of the story in order to make themselves look either like the victims or the good guys all-around whenever the proper and more objective way of coming to conclusion would be to analyze the aberration or the exception relative to the entire history and reality still happening currently.
 

PotstickerSwatstika

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This tactic of criticism is like Jews who always start somewhere in the middle of the story in order to make themselves look either like the victims or the good guys all-around whenever the proper and more objective way of coming to conclusion would be to analyze the aberration or the exception relative to the entire history and reality still happening currently.
Also insisting that their opponent hold themselves to a higher standard of morality (one that they slyly define/frame themselves, then project onto you like it was your idea) while they endlessly shape-shift from one sentence to the next until they get what they want.

Like I said before, none of this is occurring in good faith. Nick doesn’t have to play by their rules.

Also, the fact that they think Nick is beholden to them to stick to a fixed principle at all times really only serves to prove that he is the bigger man in this conflict. He has the power and, therefore, the responsibility. If he is the only one that is expected to maintain a pure, unwavering point of view... then that just means that he is the one who knocks.
 

glaucon

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Cozy is continually lagging. What the heck.
 

LeTrav

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So nasty. I've said nothing untoward here. Makes no sense to me. Seems to me somewhat chaotic to be flip flopping in a matter of weeks. Even with Destiny he came across as weak on the topic.
" A man must first acquire a fund of general ideas and fit them together so as to form an organic structure of personal thought or outlook on life--a WELTANSCHAUUNG. Then he will have that mental equipment without which he cannot form his own judgments on particular questions of the day, and he will have acquired those qualities that are necessary for consistency and steadfastness in the formation of political opinions. Such a man is now qualified, at least subjectively, to take his part in the political conduct of public affairs.

If these pre-requisite conditions are not fulfilled, and if a man should enter political life without this equipment, he will run a twofold risk. In the first place, he may find during the course of events that the stand which he originally took in regard to some essential question was wrong. He will now have to abandon his former position or else stick to it against his better knowledge and riper wisdom and after his reason and convictions have already proved it untenable. If he adopt the former line of action he will find himself in a difficult personal situation; because in giving up a position hitherto maintained he will appear inconsistent and will have no right to expect his followers to remain as loyal to his leadership as they were before. And, as regards the followers themselves, they may easily look upon their leader's change of policy as showing a lack of judgment inherent in his character. Moreover, the change must cause in them a certain feeling of discomfiture VIS-À-VIS those whom the leader formerly opposed.

If he adopts the second alternative--which so very frequently happens to-day--then public pronouncements of the leader have no longer his personal persuasion to support them. And the more that is the case the defence of his cause will be all the more hollow and superficial. He now descends to the adoption of vulgar means in his defence. While he himself no longer dreams seriously of standing by his political protestations to the last--for no man will die in defence of something in which he does not believe--he makes increasing demands on his followers. Indeed, the greater be the measure of his own insincerity, the more unfortunate and inconsiderate become his claims on his party adherents. Finally, he throws aside the last vestiges of true leadership and begins to play politics. This means that he becomes one of those whose only consistency is their inconsistency, associated with overbearing insolence and oftentimes an artful mendacity developed to a shamelessly high degree."

-Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf
 
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