Alec Baldwin’s Negligent Discharge – Actor May Face Involuntary Manslaughter Charges: “This was not a misfire”

Astral-Pepe

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I wondered if the firearm used was an original and they've loaded it with modern high pressure ammo, which I assume even blanks would be too hot.
That particular Colt model has been available as a reproduction for many years so it probably wasn't an antique but it might have been.

Negligence doesn't really explain how a live round got into that gun if that's what happened.
 

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I wondered if the firearm used was an original and they've loaded it with modern high pressure ammo, which I assume even blanks would be too hot. This may have then caused parts of the revolver to become projectiles. Do we know for sure it was a live round responsible? If so, what in hell are they doing with live rounds on a movie set? Pulling the slugs and making their own blanks? jewywood use squibs to imitate bullet impacts so there is literally no cause for there to be live rounds on set.
I'm not processing that a "blank" and a chunk of plastic zipped though one ukranian film worker and entered another film worker enough to kill one and send second to hospital. how fookun close was this shooting?

sounds like live akshual bullets were used "accidently?"

did he shoot once or twice? where is the film? was camera rolling?
 

Astral-Pepe

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did he shoot once or twice? where is the film? was camera rolling?
My understanding so far is that a single live round was fired. It penetrated the woman who died and also struck the other guy in the upper body.
 

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I'm still utterly confused about how live ammo was anywhere near the set when they're filming with blanks.
Yeah that is the most egregious part of this whole chain of errors. As far as I know it has not been 100% confirmed if it was a live round or some sort of mishap with a blank cartridge. A blank could be deadly if it was fired in close enough contact to someone, like the actor who shot himself in the head with one back in the 80s. But then that would raise the question of how two different people were shot. A blank could also be deadly if it launched something else from the barrel, like something that was stuck in the bore (though I don't know what that would be), or if the blank cartridge itself had a defect and the star crimp on the end of the case separated and flew out with enough force.

But the fact that two people were shot suggests that it was an actual bullet, and that is assuming only one such round was fired. If two separate rounds were fired then we are looking at a whole different set of circumstances because that would mean he fired a second time knowing what happened with the first one.
 

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I would presume in that chain of custody that Baldwin is the most legally responsible regarding a potential criminal charge and penalty.
I don’t know if that’s how the law will see it or not, but that seems exactly ass-backwards to me. Why should it the responsibility of an actor on a Hollywood set to ensure the safety of a prop firearm that someone else gives him and directs him to aim and fire at various people? Like Quest says:
It's done all the time in Hollywood

I'm still utterly confused about how live ammo was anywhere near the set when they're filming with blanks.
Do we know for sure it was a live round responsible? If so, what in hell are they doing with live rounds on a movie set?
No doubt. A chain of major screw-ups this long will make someone like me go conspiratard.

I read a lot about the Brandon Lee shooting when it happened. I remember someone posited the theory that it happened because at some point, there had been dummy rounds (not blanks, but rounds that look live, with a case and bullet, but no powder) loaded into the revolver for a close-up camera shot where an unloaded gun would have been obvious.

The theory was that the primers had mistakenly been left in these dummy rounds (another seriously stupid mistake), and at some point someone pulled the trigger, which would have made an audible pop, but would only have been enough force to lodge the bullet in the barrel. Later, when a blank was loaded for another scene, it would have effectively been a loaded pistol.

But yea, that theory also had me wondering what kind of projectile it could have been, because live ammo on a movie set where shooting will be acted out is really almost unbelievable (without some sort of malicious intent involved).

unfortunately a beautiful Ukranian woman is killed,
Gimme a break, bitch looked like Chuck Schumer.
 
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CryCzech

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A blank could be deadly if it was fired in close enough contact to someone
I wonder if Baldwin was screwing around on the set. Even though he's been in many movies with guns, there's a good chance he may not understand them.
 

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I read a lot about the Brandon Lee shooting when it happened. I remember someone posited the theory that it happened because at some point, there had been dummy rounds (not blanks, but rounds that look live, with a case and bullet, but no powder) loaded into the revolver for a close-up camera shot where an unloaded gun would have been obvious.

The theory was that the primers had mistakenly been left in these dummy rounds (another seriously stupid mistake), and at some point someone pulled the trigger, which would have made an audible pop, but would only have been enough force to lodge the bullet in the barrel. Later, when a blank was loaded for another scene, it would effectively been a loaded pistol.
Yeah, that's pretty much exactly what I heard happened. The prop guys couldn't find .44 Magnum dummies so they made their own, omitting the powder charge but using real primers for some reason. The weapon (I think it was a S&W 629) squib loaded the bullet into the barrel and then when blanks were shot through it later the bullet was expelled and hit Lee.
 

NatZ_Bill

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but the revolver is a Colt Frontier Six Shooter which is .44-40 WCF.
Out of curiousity, how can you tell it’s a Frontier and not a SAA? When I first saw the pic, I thought 45 Long Colt.
 

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Oh, right, don't blame the pink haired fronthole in charge of the prop guns on set. Fucking typical. Wahmens can do no wrong.
 

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Out of curiousity, how can you tell it’s a Frontier and not a SAA? When I first saw the pic, I thought 45 Long Colt.
They're very similar but the ejector housing goes the full length of the barrel on the Frontier and it's usually about an inch shorter on the SAA.

I used to buy and sell guns so I've handled all of the old cowboy guns. While I'm sitting here thinking about it I wish I had a big single action revolver like a Peacemaker or a Dragoon.
 

Astral-Pepe

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This is a pretty good rundown of how the old single actions work for those reading who don't know what I'm talking about.

 

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Yeah, that's pretty much exactly what I heard happened. The prop guys couldn't find .44 Magnum dummies so they made their own, omitting the powder charge but using real primers for some reason. The weapon (I think it was a S&W 629) squib loaded the bullet into the barrel and then when blanks were shot through it later the bullet was expelled and hit Lee.
Yeah, something like that would make the most sense in this incident I think. Whatever it was, it apparently had enough force to go through one person, killing her, and then hitting a second person with enough force to nearly kill him too. That suggests an actual bullet.
 

NatZ_Bill

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They're very similar but the ejector housing goes the full length of the barrel on the Frontier and it's usually about an inch shorter on the SAA.
Very cool, I just learned something new.

I wish I had a big single action revolver like a Peacemaker or a Dragoon.
Or a Walker Colt....if you win the Powerball lol


F4C078AF-15A6-4214-BBB5-82D3F8E4F8CE.jpeg
 
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inquisitor

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I don’t know if that’s how the law will see it or not, but that seems exactly ass-backwards to me. Why should it the responsibility of an actor on a Hollywood set to ensure the safety of a prop firearm that someone else gives him and directs him to aim and fire at various people?
With an involuntary manslaughter charge only the person who pulled the trigger and actually killed someone by accident will be found guilty of that crime. That specific charge will not apply to anyone else and it will be irrelevant as to who was supposed to make sure the gun was safe before giving it to Baldwin.

Question I wonder about is why was Baldwin pointing the gun directly at the movie director, fired the gun at her and hit her dead center with a belly shot?
 

Quest 4 The Future

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Alec Baldwin’s Negligent Discharge – Actor May Face Involuntary Manslaughter Charges: “This was not a misfire”

Perhaps all he was guilty of was a nocturnal discharge.... :unsure:
 

NatZ_Bill

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With an involuntary manslaughter charge only the person who pulled the trigger and actually killed someone by accident will be found guilty of that crime. That specific charge will not apply to anyone else and it will be irrelevant as to who was supposed to make sure the gun was safe before giving it to Baldwin.
I suppose that's true, but will or should he be found guilty of that charge? I don't think so. Just think of the greatest cinematic shootout in history: the final bank robbery scene in Heat.



1635048054700.png

(Wild Bunch BTFO)

I just wonder, was it in those actors' contracts that they were not liable for any injury due to negligence by prop handlers/tech advisers? I have no idea, but I bet there's something like that in there, and I have a hard time blaming Baldwin for this, shitlib or not. But def troll the f*k out of him.
 

Harbingrr

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Baldwin pointed a gun at someone (prop or otherwise you NEVER EVER point a gun at someone).
As someone who had the rules drilled into my head as a youngin', the thought of even pointing props at people has always made me uncomfortable. They are written in stone for a reason: if you always follow them (always!), then this sort of bullshit cannot possibly occur.

But I'm not crying any tears when ignorant anti-gunners - especially those in the ground zero of evil there in Hollywood - learn the hard way what sort of toll you can pay if you don't take it seriously.

I'm still utterly confused about how live ammo was anywhere near the set when they're filming with blanks.
I've thought about this quite often. With the budget behind these films you could easily hire a machinist to manufacture a picture-perfect replica of any firearm that can't accept live rounds and another expert to create turbocharged blanks that fit it. It's unfathomable to me that something like this can happen on set.
 

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Whoever wrote this article at The Gate Way Pundit should stop acting like an expert cause they clearly aren't one.

Semi-automatic pistols existed before the 20th century. There were a few semi-auto pistols in the late 1800's. The Mauser being one of them, being designed in 1895. I believe they even had double action revolvers back then. Also the 1911 was created in 1911, so semi-auto pistols were in use and standard military issue before WW2.

I believe blank rounds are packed with paper. I don't see how it could be anything else cause anything more substantial could be turned into a projectile. That kind of goes against the point of blank rounds.

I also doubt Alec Baldwin was holding the barrel of the gun really close to someone. It was the camera woman that got killed and I don't think they need people that close to the camera. All the pictures of movie sets I have seen the cameramen and I guess women are usually a pretty good distance away cause camera's can usually zoom in for close shots.
 

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So it would seem liability will fall upon three individuals.

The licensed armorer.
The assistant director who announced the gun was "cold" and handed it to Baldwin.
And Baldwin himself who fired the gun and did the damage to others.

I would presume in that chain of custody that Baldwin is the most legally responsible regarding a potential criminal charge and penalty. The other two are no so much responsible criminally as the buck stops with the shooter, but all three will definitely be civilly liable.
The problem is that unless he has been specifically trained in the correct handling of firearms and procedures he cannot really be held accountable unless it is shown that he had malicious intent.

The liability will fall upon the directors producers and "owners" of the production as well as the persons responsible for ensuring the safe handling of firearms on the set. I would imagine that these things would be tightly controlled because very few actors have had relevant training and most are completely clueless. It's not their fault because they are not firearms specialists or experts. This is why you have specialists and experts hired to be on the set to supervise this.

Its a workplace requirement for them to handle a FA but not to be an expert. So again unless malicious intent is shown or he loaded a live round into the firearm he likely wont face any sanction at all.

Who supplied the live round. WTF were live rounds doing anywhere near a set where props capable of firing live ammunition were being used by actors? what was the armourr's role ITO the live rounds?
 

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The problem is that unless he has been specifically trained in the correct handling of firearms and procedures he cannot really be held accountable unless it is shown that he had malicious intent.
This simply is not true in two ways. Any training or lack of training has nothing to do with whether or not you committed a criminal act, will catch a criminal charge and possibly be convicted in court. That is like saying nigger who has never handled a gun before, picks up a loaded glock he finds on the street, kills ten people with it and now whether or not he had training in the correct handling of firearms will somehow make some kind of difference as to his being charged, convicted or criminally liable.
Your second point regarding "malicious intent" is also incorrect as the charge he will likely face is "involuntary manslaughter" and I suggest you look up that term and what it actually means as it is absent any "intent". That is why it is called "involuntary". And it will also be taken into consideration as to why was Baldwin pointed the gun in the direction of the director, pulled the trigger, and shot her dead center in her belly. Surely the prosecution will want an explanation for that regarding that significant detail as well because those details may not show malicious intent, but clearly some other type of "reckless endangerment" type of charge. Especially when there was no professional reason related to his film character to be pointing the gun in the direction of the director, pulling the trigger and hitting her center mass.
When it comes to accidental firearms death and involuntary killings...the buck stops with the one who had the firearm in his hands and pullled the trigger no matter the intent.
The charge of involuntary manslaughter covers death by "accidents" and "carelessness". And the fact that he must have raised the muzzle, pointed the barrel in the direction of the director, pulled the trigger and hit the person with a fatal wound will surely convict him on that charge even if he had no intent to actually shoot her, injure her or kill her.
If I am cleaning my gun, which I truly believe to be unloaded, and the gun fires off and kills my wife or kid then I surely lacked intent but I will be catching an involuntary manslaughter charge for sure.

The liability will fall upon the directors producers and "owners" of the production as well as the persons responsible for ensuring the safe handling of firearms on the set. I would imagine that these things would be tightly controlled because very few actors have had relevant training and most are completely clueless. It's not their fault because they are not firearms specialists or experts. This is why you have specialists and experts hired to be on the set to supervise this.
Surely liability will be spread around to all of those who had a role of responsibility in this scenario. But Baldwin's criminal liability is unique to the others because Baldwin pulled the trigger and Baldwin killed the director. The assistant director and licensed armorer will likely catch a criminal charge or several, but not manslaughter. They may get a reckless endangerment charge. They will get criminal charges related to contributing to the scenario that led up to a manslaughter. And surely they will suffer civil liabilities as well as will Baldwin. Baldwins civil liabilities will be far greater because it is Baldwin that pulled the trigger and took a life and any criminal conviction for involuntary manslaughter will more than cement a civil court decision in favor of the suing party.
 

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I suppose that's true, but will or should he be found guilty of that charge? I don't think so.
I am not arguing whether or not he will beat the charge in court. I am arguing as to what he will be likely charged with. I mean look at the OJ trial and that nigger got off. The problem with Baldwin defending against involuntary manslaughter is that he shot the director in the belly. He must have raised the barrel of the gun high enough to hit anyone in the belly, the gun was pointed in the direction of someone, he pulled the trigger, hit them dead in the belly and that person died. Only with an idiot or compromised judge will one get off on that charge with that kind of scenario. And it is also possible that if he is found guilty the judge will give him very little as sentence.

I just wonder, was it in those actors' contracts that they were not liable for any injury due to negligence by prop handlers/tech advisers? I have no idea, but I bet there's something like that in there, and I have a hard time blaming Baldwin for this
You can't sign away criminal liability with an actor's contract with a movie production company. Criminal charges are brought by the state or even possibly by individuals performing a citizen's arrest and using their private attorney as a prosecuting attorney. And many times civil liability contracts are signed but the don't hold up in court when held up to reasonable scrutiny so they are not iron clad guarantees from a legal stand point.
We could personally call it assigning blame or "attributing" to the responsible party. But the law does not concern itself with "blame". It is merely a fact if he is guilty of the charge of involuntary manslaughter as designated by the wording the law or statue and by case law regarding accidental firearms death. And unfortunately for Baldwin, the anti-gun left has helped established some good and non-negotiable stricter laws regarding accidental firearms deaths, ironically.
 
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