Agreeing With Actual Progressives For All the Right Reasons?

Jozef_Tiso

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This is a serious question for the forum. We joke about agreeing with liberals (for all the wrong reasons), but do you find yourself agreeing with actual Progressives for all the right reasons? Over the years, I dismissed people such as: Seymore Hirsch, Matt Taibbi, Max Blumenthal, Aaron MatΓ©, and Abby Martin as being either Jews and/or Marxists. That being said, each of these individuals offers critiques of US Foreign Policy that is far better than anything on the "Respectable" Right. As we all know, the Dissident Right has largely failed in part due to fed infiltration but also in part due to grifters/con artists. We were never able to get //our guys// into positions to critique not only US Foreign Policy, but Domestic Policy as well. Actual Progressives seem much more willing to critique: US Foreign Policy, Domestic Surveillance, Corruption within Federal Law Enforcement, Israel, and US backed coups. I am not going all Eric Striker, but merely offering up the idea that much of what these people believe is very similar to what is expressed in the Dissident Right. Minus of course, bullshit about "White Privilege" and the worship of all things Brown/Black. Please share your thoughts.
 

Italo-Canadian

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Some progressive economic policies just are common sense (if we were living in a homogeneous, high-trust society like Norway): for example, the rich should pay more in taxes than the working/middle classes. Neoliberalism is autistic cancer that must be scrapped sooner rather than later; humans are not simply an input for GDP growth like lolbertarians would like to believe.
 

Jozef_Tiso

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Some progressive economic policies just are common sense (if we were living in a homogeneous, high-trust society like Norway): for example, the rich should pay more in taxes than the working/middle classes. Neoliberalism is autistic cancer that must be scrapped sooner rather than later; humans are not simply an input for GDP growth like lolbertarians would like to believe.
I have to give actual Progressives a bit of credit, they are challenging Neoliberalism. Too many Conservative cannot/will not allow themselves to even question that order. In many ways, Conservatives are like Marxist apologists from the early-mid 90s that claimed "Real Communism" was never tried. Therefore, the Soviet Union was not a "Real" Marxist nation.
 

Italo-Canadian

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Many large corporations lobby politicians for subsidies in one form or another, but small and medium enterprises don't have the resources to buy senators or congressmen; everyone who isn't a shill understands that is unjust, but nothing is done to rectify the situation.
 

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They are the enemy in the end, if they were given the same power as those they criticize they would probably behave in the same way.
 

Angryguy

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Funny I see them as agreeing with us. But I get your point. I actually respect Seymour hersh as he blew the lid off isis before it was called isis. Read the redirection in New Yorker in 2007.

This is a serious question for the forum. We joke about agreeing with liberals (for all the wrong reasons), but do you find yourself agreeing with actual Progressives for all the right reasons? Over the years, I dismissed people such as: Seymore Hirsch, Matt Taibbi, Max Blumenthal, Aaron MatΓ©, and Abby Martin as being either Jews and/or Marxists. That being said, each of these individuals offers critiques of US Foreign Policy that is far better than anything on the "Respectable" Right. As we all know, the Dissident Right has largely failed in part due to fed infiltration but also in part due to grifters/con artists. We were never able to get //our guys// into positions to critique not only US Foreign Policy, but Domestic Policy as well. Actual Progressives seem much more willing to critique: US Foreign Policy, Domestic Surveillance, Corruption within Federal Law Enforcement, Israel, and US backed coups. I am not going all Eric Striker, but merely offering up the idea that much of what these people believe is very similar to what is expressed in the Dissident Right. Minus of course, bullshit about "White Privilege" and the worship of all things Brown/Black. Please share your thoughts.
 

Jozef_Tiso

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Many large corporations lobby politicians for subsidies in one form or another, but small and medium enterprises don't have the resources to buy senators or congressmen; everyone who isn't a shill understands that is unjust, but nothing is done to rectify the situation.
Recently, I heard Norman Finkelstein (everyone on this forum should read The Holocaust Industry) on this Black podcast. He made a point that you often hear in Progressive circles. That among the corporate types, it is a system of socialism. Where among the lower classes, it is the "Free Market". Gore Vidal had been saying that for years as well.

@Angryguy
You are spot on about your observation about Hirsch.
 

Caligula

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Apparently there’s been some studies and those in the extreme right and extreme left have similar β€œbrain patterns” and social behaviour. I want many of the things progressives want but I see the means to which to achieve those goals completely different. I’m very pro environment. But I don’t think a carbon tax on the working or middle class is the solution. I see planting trees, less urban sprawl, more parks, less litter, as the solution
 
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TheBoom

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The terms left and right are rather meaningless now given that the left has been taken over by the oligarchs, all mainstream parties ultimately serve the same masters and the dissident right is rejecting traditional sacred cows of the right such as the military.

Then Trump happened. Any thinking person on the left, such as Greenwald and Taibbi, has been pushed into connecting with the right because the right is still going after the deep state and the corporate overlords while the left has become the bitch of the oligarchs and deep state. Even mainstream liberals like Alex Berenson have been pushed towards the right.

Now you are either a real dissident or a tool of the oligarchs. Fake dissidents like Turning Pt USA on the right and antifa on the left hate they real dissidents and try to silence them (us).

Tucker Carlson has actually played an important role in bringing dissidents on both sides of the aisle together.

I have no idea if anything good will come out of this but it can't hurt.

This all is easier for me to accept than some on the right because I am not much of an ideologue. For me politics isn't a religion. It is just about safeguarding a people and doing things (e.g., infrastructure) that make life better. And, if America was still comprised of its heritage population I would be in favor of many of the policies found in Scandinavia such as mass transit and universal Healthcare. They make a lot more sense than maintaining the empire.
 

Angryguy

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Recently, I heard Norman Finkelstein (everyone on this forum should read The Holocaust Industry) on this Black podcast. He made a point that you often hear in Progressive circles. That among the corporate types, it is a system of socialism. Where among the lower classes, it is the "Free Market". Gore Vidal had been saying that for years as well.

@Angryguy
You are spot on about your observation about Hirsch.
The holocaust industry is a great book. One of the few about modern politics i own.
 

Jozef_Tiso

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The terms left and right are rather meaningless now given that the left has been taken over by the oligarchs, all mainstream parties ultimately serve the same masters and the dissident right is rejecting traditional sacred cows of the right such as the military.

Then Trump happened. Any thinking person on the left, such as Greenwald and Taibbi, has been pushed into connecting with the right because the right is still going after the deep state and the corporate overlords while the left has become the bitch of the oligarchs and deep state. Even mainstream liberals like Alex Berenson have been pushed towards the right.

Now you are either a real dissident or a tool of the oligarchs. Fake dissidents like Turning Pt USA on the right and antifa on the left hate they real dissidents and try to silence them (us).

Tucker Carlson has actually played an important role in bringing dissidents on both sides of the aisle together.

I have no idea if anything good will come out of this but it can't hurt.

This all is easier for me to accept than some on the right because I am not much of an ideologue. For me politics isn't a religion. It is just about safeguarding a people and doing things (e.g., infrastructure) that make life better. And, if America was still comprised of its heritage population I would be in favor of many of the policies found in Scandinavia such as mass transit and universal Healthcare. They make a lot more sense than maintaining the empire.
I listen to Jimmy Dore a couple of times during the week. He regularly has on Max Blumenthal and Aaron Mate, all these men joke about the fact that as Progressives they cannot get air time on "Progressive" programs. Even Democracy Now! with Amy Goodman has largely moved into a liberal direction by spouting Russia bullshit. Blumenthal regularly makes jokes when his friends go on Tucker, and calls it the Red-Brown Alliance.
 

TheBoom

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Blumenthal regularly makes jokes when his friends go on Tucker, and calls it the Red-Brown Alliance.
It is becoming the sane alliance
 

TheBoom

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Gore Vidal had been saying that for years as well.

@Angryguy
You are spot on about your observation about Hirsch.
Vidal and Alexander Cockburn were the only leftist intellectuals during most of my lifetime that weren't predictable. Now you know what is going to come out of a progressives mouth before he says it. They weren't too blunt about it but both got the JQ and were anti Israel. Cockburn was even pro 2nd.
 

DaveA

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I agree with the progressive concept of "odious debt". If a cabal of corrupt tyrants takes over a nation and maxes out its credit cards, it is their debt, not the nation's.

So when a right-wing regime takes power, we'll tell the Chinese, "We owe you nothing because we did not borrow money from you. But we'll gladly round up the people who did and send them to China to work it off."
 

TheBoom

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Matt Taibbi has written some great stuff regardless of his political leanings.
Taibbi deserves a lot of credit for being a rare leftist who was willing to go after Obama for the 2008 bailout swindle. And he was willing to name Obama
 

Garfisch

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It’s not always the reality we acknowledge and recognize which defines us politically, but what we do (or don’t do) in reaction to it.
 

Czethertihor

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Apparently there’s been some studies and those in the extreme right and extreme left have similar β€œbrain patterns” and social behaviour. I want many of the things progressives want but I see the means to which to achieve those goals completely different. I’m very pro environment. But I don’t think a carbon tax on the working or middle class is the solution. I see planting trees, less urban sprawl, more parks, less litter, as the solution
While I feel the same regarding the environment, I can never take a shitlib seriously because their idea of "saving the environment" is basically just banning plastic bags or some fucking retarded stupid bullshit, meanwhile *glances at massive river of plastic gushing out of India and China* can't say anything about that don't wanna be racist!
 

Jozef_Tiso

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Vidal and Alexander Cockburn were the only leftist intellectuals during most of my lifetime that weren't predictable. Now you know what is going to come out of a progressives mouth before he says it. They weren't too blunt about it but both got the JQ and were anti Israel. Cockburn was even pro 2nd.
Back in 2015 when the early Dissident Right was really coming into its own, there were all kinds of treasures from the past being discovered. One of which, was Francis Parker Yockey. There were a couple of interviews I remember hearing from Gore Vidal where he was advocating a similar position as Yockey regarding the Soviet Union. Looking back, much of the anti-Communist hysteria was fueled by Jews having sour grapes over Trotsky.

I must confess, I have never read anything from Alexander Coburn. Although, I have heard his name thrown around by Progressives over the years.
 

Caligula

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While I feel the same regarding the environment, I can never take a shitlib seriously because their idea of "saving the environment" is basically just banning plastic bags or some fucking retarded stupid bullshit, meanwhile *glances at massive river of plastic gushing out of India and China* can't say anything about that don't wanna be racist!
Agree same with deforestation etc
 

TheBoom

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I must confess, I have never read anything from Alexander Coburn. Although, I have heard his name thrown around by Progressives over the years.
Here are some of Cockburn I recommend

His debunking of Wiesel

Truth and Fiction in Elie Wiesel’s β€œNight”
A Moral Fabulist

"A Colossal Wreck: A Road Trip Through Political Scandal, Corruption and American Culture" by Alexander Cockburn.


"Whiteout: The CIA, Drugs and the Press" by Alexander Cockburn, Jeffrey St. Clair.

 

Jozef_Tiso

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Here are some of Cockburn I recommend

His debunking of Wiesel

Truth and Fiction in Elie Wiesel’s β€œNight”
A Moral Fabulist

"A Colossal Wreck: A Road Trip Through Political Scandal, Corruption and American Culture" by Alexander Cockburn.


"Whiteout: The CIA, Drugs and the Press" by Alexander Cockburn, Jeffrey St. Clair.

I'll check out these clips. I heard an old panel discussion he had with Steve Forbes and Brian Lamb from 1992 on C-SPAN. I also saw some clips of him on RT discussing America's "Blessing" Israel. I just caught that I wrote "Coburn" rather than Cockburn.
 

inquisitor

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(if we were living in a homogeneous, high-trust society like Norway): for example, the rich should pay more in taxes than the working/middle classes.
I have heard that "high trust" phrase used before to describe Norway. But I was never quite sure what that actually meant or how it was actually true.

Here is one example of malfeasance and greed in Norway that affects the entire country and everyone in it personally...

Norway has some of the most expensive and highest food prices in the world, and last I heard it was "THE" highest food prices in the world.

Some of the wealthiest families in Norway are those who run the big 3 companies, a tri-opoly, that own all the grocery and food store chains under assorted names.

They constantly get found out by the state anti-monopoly and unfair competition bureau of scheming together to put foreign competition that enters the country out of business through unfair practices. Sweden's grocery chain ICA was such a case. Excellent store with excellent goods at a decent price. The three plotted together to eventually diminish their presence in the market to just a few stores in areas where profits justified the store to scantily remain. Then the big three conspire amongst themselves to monitor each other's prices so everything costs close to the same price no matter where you buy. Comparison shopping is almost non-existent in the area of food and grocery shopping in Norway. The all are in competition with one another, but also conspire to keep the prices high and consistent among the different stores. Sure you may save a buck on one item at one store, but it will cost a buck more for another time at the other store. When all added up the savings is the same at all stores and you end up spending the same amount with the same shopping list in the end.

And yet, the bureau that is responsible to discipline these violations either looks the other way or hands out very low and minor financial penalties that do nothing to thwart further fraud. Political connections and even masonic connections very likely in this regard.

These grocery chains are also blatantly price gouging the consumer. They will falsely claim that it is the subsidized domestic Norwegian farmers and their methods of production that cause foods to be high in price, but this is a lie. They will lie and claim the price hike has to be applied to all imports to save domestic production through fair competition, yet the price hikes occur on goods that are not even produced in Norway and thus there is no domestic competition to even consider.

For example...
A bottle of Ocean Spray Cranberry juice imported from the USA is hiked in price with a competitive price hike to "protect domestic Norwegian producers". But Norway does not produce cranberry juice at all. And in Sweden the very same juice which has to be imported also from the USA, but is FIVE times cheaper than if you buy the very same juice in Norway. The only justification or reason for the price hike is that the Norwegian grocery chain is gouging the consumer and lying about why the are getting gouged. It has nothing to do with the price of importation, tax, EU trade agreements, or protectionism of domestic production because the numbers just don't add up.
This can be exemplified with many products in the stores. There is no other explanation for it.

Because of this, millions of kroner are spent every year by Norwegians traveling just over the border into Sweden where purpose-built shopping centers exist solely for Norwegians to arrive, spend all day and buy groceries at much reduced prices as well as alcohol and tobacco. Alcohol and tobacco are mostly higher in Norway due to tax and I actually support the high Norwegian tax on those two items to reduce their consumption. Last year, when covid stopped over the border travel, the Norwegian grocery chains raked in all the money that normally would have been spent in Sweden. I find it quite comical that there are two huge shopping center and mall areas designed for Norwegians to arrive and shop in Sweden. It is also an additional price savings because the Norwegian kroner is usually worth more than the Swedish kroner.

The big three grocery chains in Norway also purposefully do not stock large sized items or anything in bulk in which one could then buy quantity at a discount.
Coming from America, I was shocked by this and had to investigate why this was the case. And the only explanation is for the stores to rake in more money at the expense of the customer.
But in Sweden you can find jumbo and bulk sized items just as easily and economically as in any American buyer's club-type store.
 

Jozef_Tiso

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Norwegians traveling just over the border into Sweden
I knew a few Americans who had spent significant amounts of time in Norway--they could speak the language and lived among the locals. Anyways, a couple of them told me I had to watch the show Lillehammer. It's about a former-Mafioso that gets resettled in Norway. One thing these people told me was that the show dealt with the aspect of Norwegians going to Sweden for food, tobacco, and alcohol.
 
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